It's an idea that has often been discussed, but no formal action has ever been taken.What do you think about making the men's locker room sauna facilities available to women members one night a week? We realize this might be a sensitive and hot button subject to some male members (no pun intended), but it is an issue that is being debated within the management staff and committee members.
One idea suggested would be to allow women access to the sauna on Wednesday evenings during and following the informal ladies night golf league from 5pm to 8pm. Female bar and food servers would have access to the locker facility to serve beverages and whatever else the women might order.
Take a moment to think this over - and then participate in our online surveys. Our first question concerning the availability of the facility is for all members. We'd ask that only women members participate in the second poll quesiton on possible use, and would expect the men to respect this by not voting on the second question.
We'd also ask that if you decide to offer any comments, you be respectful with your opinions. Just click on comments under this story to add any thoughts you might have.
34 comments:
To me, this seems past due. NCC hasn't done a great job of making its facilities equal for its members (e.g., discrepancy in locker room quality), and I think this would be a step in the right direction. I would actually prefer much more of an equal split of time for access to the sauna (3 hours a week is not much), but I'll take what I can get.
This is a great idea. Also I recommend that some select special events be promoted that open the sauna to women. For example, why not a cross country ski/ snowshoe night for women with access to the sauna. Could do that quickly.
To me, this is absolutely ridiculous. If I recall correctly, we built a new club house recently and possibly, an additional sauna and whatever else that supposedly was discussed should have been taken care of then. Im sorry but not being able to use my locker and facilities at my leisure is out of the question. Whats next couples sauna night?
Whatever night is chosen, what about men finishing a round of golf that evening? They would not have locker room access after the round? This seems somewhat unfair to the men. Put another sauna in the womens locker room.
To anonymous at 4:23: Does it seem "out of the question" to you that I don't get to have the facilities that you, even though I pay the same dues that you do? I do agree that it should have been taken care of when the new clubhouse was built, but it wasn't.
To 4:18, I think the ski/snowshoe thing is a good idea.
I'm the poster from 3:57, and I hadn't considered men's access to the locker room--would that be prohibited/impossible if women were in the sauna? I'm not aware of how interconnected they are. I'm still very much in favor of the idea, but obviously some issues would need to be addressed.
To 430, The origional sauna was donated by a member that wanted one in the locker room he used. Throw a cap down and fill it with donated $$ and put one in.
To the 3:57 poster, the sauna is located in the middle of the mens locker room. It would make it an impossibly for the guys to use the showers, bathroom, lockers, etc. I have a feeling this blog is going to cause a bit of an uproar, my suggestion is to remove it.
Clint is not being respectful. Does the member who "paid" for the sauna also continue to pay maintenance, utilities, a portion of the real estate taxes, employee wages benefits, etc? That is not the point. The club belongs to its members. No thank you to using the sauna. Which, of course, belongs to and is supported by ALL members, both male and female.
Kelly Johnson
I do not hold remarks posted by anonymous posters in high regard.
As to raising funds to install another sauna, great idea! We will raise the money for the sauna furnace and interior finishes. NCC members will pay for the architectural plans, permits, exterior walls, plumbing, and electrical.
Who's in??
Kelly Johnson
As a disclaimer and b/c I've gotten some calls on this topic due to this post, this blogsite does not represent NCC or it's board. the board has no input on this site. The comments, content and polls are owned and controlled by it's owner, duke Skorich. As a board member this is the first I've heard of this and don't have Amy knowledge of discussions btw management or committees. Nice lively discussion though. Ray Peterson
I understand the men not being happy with access being denied for a time while women use the sauna ..but I also agree the women were not equally offered fascilities, either give them what was due or share. It is unfortunate women have had less for a long time It is time. NCC should move along with the times as other fascilites have across the country. Equal opportunity for ALL. I also encourage the men to ask to take a stroll through the womens locker room and have a peek at the comparisons in the men and womens.
I know this will inconvenience men for a short time each week, but the value to female members is highly important. It's only 3 hours out of the week, but can show women, who currently pay equal dues as members, that they are just as valued as the men and are entitled to full use of the facility.
Perhaps there's some way we can block off that portion of the locker room so that men can still use the other half? We'll see if that's a feasible option.
We knew it would be controversial, but controversy isn't necessarily bad. It can often lead to excellent compromise.
I believe discussion is always a good option when looking for change. We will never have a perfect scenario but we certainly can make change and often this will bring controversy. I hope we receive more feedback and if speaking up anonymous is you comfort level.. I value the feedback... I see all points... if I were a man I wouldn't enjoy my space being taken over... but as a female I also see the benefits of making our club a more equal place and with that... it means offering very similar options with any NCC package. Perhaps more discussion is needed ...Do the women feel they need their own sauna...now there is a can of worms to open... B-)
If the woman want to take a sauna, put one in their locker room. As for the locker room compairasons, all you have to do is look at the
men to woman ratio who use and ultimately pay for our exterior facilitys. This club is a business just like anything else, in order to keep the business afloat you keep the customers happy. You cant have woman in the mens locker room, but also cant deny equality so just put one in the womans locker room and end this BS.
Why women don't have a sauna at NCC has been discussed for almost as long as the speed of the greens has.
Many things have been done at Northland through volunteer fund raising. The pavers between the pro shop and the practice green where carts are staged is a perfect example as is the funding for artwork in the new club house.
The logistics of "sharing" the current sauna would be a nightmare. What if a guy needs his golf shoes to play a few holes or use the practice tee? What if someone needs rain gear from their locker? It would be a temporary fix at best and cause more issues than it would solve.
If the women really feel they would use a sauna, it should be in the women's locker room. The club should pay for it or the members should pay through donations.
Some of the comments on this subject bring up a larger issue. While a board member pointed out that this blog is not the property of the club, it has served as the club's major communications tool for many years now and has even been featured in national club publication as an example of how clubs should be communicating in the digital world we now live in. The disconnect is that this blog is perceived to be the voice of the club. The club, its board and its members should be very appreciative of the countless hours the owner has to be putting in to keep it current, and the owner (a board member himself) and the board should figure a way to be on the same page about the blog and its content.
Just to rectify, I have not posted a comment prior to now, and have never taken part in the debate as I am only an employee of the Club, carrying out the wishes of a superior or authoritative figure. The poll was created to drive debate, and consider all options to increase traffic at your Club. I apologize on behalf of the staff at Northland to anyone taking offense at the comments supposedly being made by me, and urge anonymous posters to remain anonymous and not use my name.
See what anonymous blogging can do. I think we all know it wasn't you, Clint I KNEW I should have used quotation marks. Isn't it strange how all anonymous bloggers are negative... Hmmmmmm.
Excuse me but I'm the poster from 3:39 and my comments are not and were not intended to be negative.
Why don't people have the "balls" to leave their names on their posts! After millions spent on the beautiful new clubhouse, why is this even an issue? It was donated by a benevolent member of our club, and as far as I'm concerned, this proposal is ridiculous! Do you know how much it cost to build a sauna? A couple thousand dollars tops! Pony up and build your own! I know I'm just a peon at this establishment, but try to remember the percentages of men to women here! For all twenty women who might actually use this, the men would have to avoid our own locker room during those times? We already bent too far on the dang ball washers and benches, now this?
Sorry ladies, but this BETTER not happen! It's bad enough seeing some of the guys walking around the locker room, much less some of their wives too!! What next, naked twister night? No!! I'm not a hater either!
I do not agree with this "idea". As it is a "thrown out there" idea to get us to start thinking of how we can get more members to use the facilities and stay as happy NCC members only.
Yes it is unfair to the women, but as many reasons already visited, the women barely use the locker rooms/showers as it is. By the way, the locker room
specifically the women's, is for golf members only! Do we not allow pool/tennis/club house or social to use the sauna too? Will they get to use the locker room?............No. This is a "Nightmare" as already mentioned.
What we do need is some "real" input as to retaining
our current membership without degrading our club though.
The men's sauna was a donation by a member of good standing who also was the one built the new clubhouse. If the women want a sauna it will take one determined member or we build one and up the monthly dues.
I think the point of this entire discussion is for members to have a chance to comment and consider what we can do as a club to make the member experience better. Maybe it isn't allowing women in the men's sauna. Maybe it isn't building a sauna for the women. But, we should be discussing this since the idea has been discussed among members for months. Mostly among women, but none the less discussed. By the way, some clubhouse members do use the men's locker room for socializing and suana. Not all of them, but a select few are in there on a regular basis. It just depends on who you are, not all members are treated equally be they men or women.
I'm not sure what is more troubling: the outrageous way this current board of directors chose to handle making a decision like this (via an anonymous blog) or that I learned about it from a friend that bookmarks the "Duluth Citizens Blog" (a very disparaging local lunatic blog). I got the call this AM. "How's your private club up there", Fine I replied. " Oh really?, I voted a few times and it looks like you'll have, in addition to banquet guests, women in the men's locker room". So my comment is this: Can we please keep this out of the public view? And regarding the policy: build the women a sauna in their locker room. From what I understand, they have tons of unused space. Signed, MAYBE A MEMBER - HOW WOULD YOU KNOW?
Once again, "anons" prevail in the blogs, but the last one brings up the point of all points!! This is one of the top clubs in the country and certain standards are meant to be met and voted on by it's members!
That fact this was posted in a blog is ludicrous in the first place and now made public on another "all access" blog site is even more embarrassing for the club. Will someone please delete this whole discussion/blog before irreparable damage is done! With all they have done to get NCC on the map, we do not need this to bring it down!!!!
Sorry deleted my last comment by accident.
CAn we have a civil adult discussion here without disrepcting each other?
I agree with Sandra. And Sandra could you elaborate on what was offensive so everyone can understand?
A proper discussion entails respecting differences... listening... responding without name calling ...sticking to topic at hand.... Being open minded enough to agree to disagree at times. Above all respect that we are all equals and deserve to be treated as such. Which includes having either equal benches...ball washers and amenities at all male and female locations or equally fewer... I personally don't see asking for equality in these areas as inappropriate..Do we not all pay equally the same fee? Should we not receive the same amenities equally then? I speak only for myself here but in my opinion we should have equality. I also will say it again.... I understand the men not wishing to have their locker room not available to them ... What concerns me as a person is people not willing to discuss such issues.... This is about equality not only about he has she has.... Don't you think?
I believe it was said above this isn't where the board chose to ask for a discussion it was a poll created by Duke as this is his blog. People post here at thier leisure. Clarification of the space in the women's locker room there is not tons of space as someone else commented.
The Clint that blogged Is me, Clint Gustafson not Clint Johnson. I didnt even think about anyone contemplating our manager, and my friend as the person that STRONGLY opposed this insane notion to allow women in the mens locker room. I apologize to our manager, but not to anyone thinking that this is an idea that should be acknowledged. My email is clintgustafson@gmail.com for anyone who wants to debate this personally. Leave our gracious manager ALONE and check your club directory for names before running your mouth (and staying anonymous)or pointing blame.
To anyone that has not yet figured this out, we all belong to a private GOLF club! This is not a pool club, tennis club, or social club. This is not some democratic BS club that is ment for everyone or everyone would belong. Everybody gets the same walk through when they join. If you are dissatisfied with your decision to to be part of this club, quit or do something besides whine on blogs while on company time. Women in the mens locker room? REALLY! So the question in my mind, what do the men get to do in the womens locker room? Even Steven right. What a joke, the winter is apparently getting a tap long for some.
Mr Gustafson would you recommend there never be decision change at NCC because a decision or past plan was made? As you said " you saw what you were joining" so that must make it the end of subject. Let us not consider that a woman might also really wish to play golf at NCC and that she might wish to improve upon the state of the rest of the options. That we should never have conversation on issues we may not all agree on? Perhaps what people are looking for is modifications to improve our CC for the future. Isn't that what a good business does look to the future and trends? Let's face it the women would prefer their own sauna and not have to invade the mens area.
This blog is not about improving our CC, or putting a sauna in the womens locker room, all of which are great ideas. This blog is about allowing women to use the mens locker room one day a week.(and we all know it wouldnt end there) If the blog was about putting one in the womens room, I think you would see ample support from the members. As for me, im completely unwilling to compromise on having a more limited use of the facilities im afforded now. Ask the club to return 1/7 of the hundreds of the mens monthly dues because of the loss of Wednesdays and see how far you get. PS, put your name on your statements or dont make any.
The simplest and most fair alternative is to rotate locker room access. Have the women use the men's locker rooms Monday, Wednesday, and Saturday. Have the men use the women's locker rooms Monday, Wednesday, and Saturday.
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